Thread on the C-section Forum got me thinking.........

I was just having a nosy, as you do, on the forums when I came across one asking about the public system and the "choice" to have a c-section and coupled with a post here got my brain thinking (sometimes it even makes sense) but the following is a quote from a reply, with my "thinking out loud" stuff after:

ditto to the other ladies smile i asked my dr at my 12 week visit if i have the option of a c section this time around and he said 'whatever you want, you are the mother, you are in control, i cant see a problem with it'.

See that is interesting because if that were true why are they basically trying to enact legislation that doesn't allow women the choice of having their babies at home? Why does the public system not allow women total choice of how they choose to bring their babies into the world unless it follows the medicalised version of what birth has become?

If someone wants to choose a c-section that has nothing to do with me in the giant scheme of things, nor does it if someone chooses a birth centre or a home birth....but to say that there is choice when you are basically outlawing one form of choice seems an interesting way to tell women that they are in control and can do it how they want.

Any other thoughts?

Christina

Hey Christina...have the inlaws left yet ??? lol

I saw my midwife at the hospital on Thursday and got the same response....they'll support me in any decision I make (so long as its either a vbac or c/section).

You aleady know my own personal views on home births but I do think its an interesting point you've raised.

How can they discredit one type of birthing practise but be so flipant with other choices; or is it because the other choices are still controlled by publicly funded hospitals and that the public still percieve home births to be unsafe?

Its a very interesting point and I'll be watching this thread to see the responses you get.

cheerio

Rach

Rach,

She left last week...seems like a lifetime ago already. wink] We get along reasonably well actually so it was great having her here.

I think there is this perception that home birth is somehow unsafe, or less safe than being in hospital which we could debate forever so I think that clouds the view of the people making the decisions; they tell women they have a choice, but only within the confines of what they deem acceptable ways to give birth. I'm shocked to hear that independent midwives there can't get insurance, that completely baffles me; you'll insure someone to slice women open, sometimes unnecessarily and because that is what she chooses and all the associated risks with it but you won't insure people who want to support women to make fully informed choices about how/where they give birth.

It goes alot as well I think to the idea that Drs/surgeons are "gods" and they they can save everyone all the time and the truth is they can't; they are human like you and me and they make mistakes and sometimes those mistakes make a situation worse and sometimes no matter how experienced they are they can't do what people expect them to do which in this instance is save babies who might otherwise have died or been in someway "damaged" by the birth process.

The implication seems to be that midwives, who do usually have some sort of medical background(there do on this side of the Tasman anyway), are mainly there to support women and from what I can tell that they intentionally put babies lives at "risk" to support the mum to be in how she wants to do things and with my midwife co-op that has certainly never been the case; if they feel that a transfer is in order either to hospital during a home birth, to an OB if issues arise in the pregnancy or if a c-section is needed then they support the intervention because it is in the best interest of the women who have entrusted their unborn babies to their care. I think that because things are so "managed" in the hospital environment that they think that by having less monitoring and "control" means that potential issues aren't picked up on as quickly as they might be in hospital and I think because they see what they do day in and day out they can't imagine that women don't need "intervention" to do what we have been doing since the dawn of time.

That's not to say that all intervention is bad or not warranted, that things don't turn to custard and the process doesn't go the way it was envisioned by the would be parents (as I am sure you found yourself) but nor do I think that it is as bad as it is portrayed in the media. It's like bed sharing........a baby dies in it's parents bed and it's all over the news and the parents are labelled irresponsible but if another 10 babies die in their cots we never hear about it because "they did all they could to ensure a safe environment for sleeping" and that pisses me off to...but that's another thread entirely. PMSL

I thought about posting this reply in the c-section thread, but then thought the better of it because usually I get my head taken off for it. LOL

Here Here!It seems they only want what they deem as fit. Birth should be a choice, but we need to change a lot of opinions to that choice and it seems the public ( hospitals and women, who have had bad experience or are sadly unable to have a normal birth) who don't respect other people choices just make it worse.
I've said it once ill say it again. I don't care how you birth, but don't ram 'YOUR version' down my throat.!
(I am petrified of a csection! I have two under 3, 3rd on way, my hubby works in the mines, and I can only get limited help. Id be completely stuffed if "I was taking too long to birth" so ive elected to take a much more 'natural method' in birth to try and protect myself from this outcome) However Jamesmum, like you said- i am under no illusion of how quick id wind up in hospital w my mid wife if any thing went slightly skew! In australia it seems midwives are over cautious rather then risk me or bubs for ' a perfect birth exp!'
On ur last coment- ain'tthat the truth, but you also get drilled and questioned hard on y you'd try to kill your baby with birth centreor hb experience (but noone thinks thats rough!)

HB aren't unsafe- if all is well, and weren't thought to be until early1900's when poor women who couldn't afford hb had hospices built for them. This is when neo mortality rates went thru the roof and childbirth as well. Further more they were used as guinea pigs for all sorts of things:( After the 50's it was all over for hb, drs started introducing drugs into the equation. Ie twilight sleep, hence why hubby wasn't allowed in!
[Edited on 08/03/2009]

As usual Christina another articulate reply.

I'm slowly coming around to your side or point of view about hb's being safe, still not something that I'd do personally but I do understand where you and others are coming from.

I do think though that "intervention" for want of a better description is overused in hospitals which can for some make their birthing experience all the more harder.

Maybe we all need to shout a bit louder to those that make these decisions....after all, it is OUR choice as to where and how we deliver our babies. Some choose hospitals, some choose a birthing centre and some choose home. How can any be considered unsafe when there are trained medical staff caring for mums through all options.

Really makes you wonder doesnt it.

I think the simple answer to your question Christina is that by 'choosing' a c/s you are completely handing over control of your birthing experience to your OB (although some are now fooling us into believing that we can have some imput and control for example taking the baby from your abdo yourself), by choosing a HB you are completely taking over control of your birthing experience - the medical establishment just doesn't like that and are doing everything in their power to prevent it. Control is the key - the frighening thing about this whole issue of course is that if they can take away the choice of homebirth or outlaw freebirth then nothing is safe... imagine the outcry if it was legislated that all birthing women were required to have an epi becuase it has been deemed safest? The agenda is just a little more hidden to most women when it comes to legislating about homebirth!!!

In WA you are not able to choose a CSection if you go through the public system. So "choices" are limited for all, not just home birthers. Just my two cents worth, I'll bugger off now.

In WA water births are illegal in hospitals as well as choosing c/s. What really pees me off though is that as a VBACer I cannot have a homebirth unless I fund my own private midwife who may not be able to get insurance. Plus my health fund wont cover it because it is not part of the Community Midwifery Scheme. If I had never had a c/s in the first place (grrr to the Drs but that is another story), I would be allowed to have a FREE homebirth. In my opinion this is discrimination! So now I am faced with going to the hospital to have this baby where the Drs are all bullying me into having another c/s even though I am telling them every day that I am not coming in and will see them when I am in labour. DH and I are considering having the baby at home and calling an ambulance if things get hairy because of all the pressure we are being put under.
So in my opinion, these "laws" are actually making things more unsafe because people like me will refuse to go to Hospital and turn up for appts out of fear they will end up with interventions.
Anyone feel the same?
[Edited on 10/03/2009]

I'm in WA too and I've not heard of waterbirth in hossy being illegal? My cousin was told at the beginning of her labour that she could labour in the water, but they would ask her to get out to birth. But then the middy told her quietly that they can only ask and she can refuse, they can't do anything about it, but at least they can write in thier notes that the request was refused, I guess it just covers the hospital.
But yes, I agree with the majority of pps, taking away one choice is really not choice, it is forcing women into making decisions about thier birth that they are not entirely happy with.

Yep BugsBunny this is right. It is actually illegal but if you go to King Eddies the midwives tell you the spiel but wont MAKE you get out of the bath. Stupid really!

In Brisbane the Royal Womens hospital had a major refurb a few years ago and each birthing suite was fitted out with a big spa/tub...

However with the bureaucracy that goes on...women are not allowed to "birth" in the tub. It can be used for pain relief but apparently they will make you get out of it to actually birth.

Stupid really !

Yeah I birthed in RWH bris. I was to fat to birth in spa?!? (At 39wks, I was fitter then when I a "healthy weight" I rode a bike 15kms a day and walked for half an hour minimum-but still not healthy enough)

Forgive my ignorance do some women get funded home births? or is that just rural women?
Vbacs are scary territory- but if all else is well, what is the likelyhood? (Ive heard someone birth at home fine- so i don't quiet understand?!?)