Why do I feel like noone understands Why I am terr

I don't understand why some of the women on here keep saying they were told what to do in hospital and didn't have a say in their labours and are now scared of hospitals. Are you all young girls???? If not, surely as an adult and a mature and intelligent woman, you can speak up and say what you need or even use the word, NO!

"Got made to birth on your back??????" I have had 3 children and have never been MADE to have anything that I didn't want. I just can't see someone forcing you to lie on your back especially if you said you didn't want to. And if you didn't speak up or if anyone doesn't speak up, then that is your fault - not the hospitals...

Just as an aside, this has nothing to do specifically with giving birth - whether in hospital or not... but it *is* about speaking up when you're in a compromising position in a hospital.

As I mentioned in a previous post, my husband is 6'6", and he had pretty much attained that height by the time he was in his late teens. He was *not* a small person. One of the problems that extreme height can give is a tendency for the lungs to collapse - either completely or partially. While in his late teens, one of my husbands lungs partially collapsed. He wasn't having a REAL issue with breathing, but it was uncomfortable, so he went to the hospital.

The doctors at the hospital told him they wanted to do surgery on him. He refused. He was of an age where he could make his own mind up, and having experienced the problem before, he knew that it didn't *need* a surgical procedure.

They argued with him, and again he refused. Then, the doctors actually called four orderlies in, had them hold him down, and did the procedure on him, without any anaesthetic (general or local) to "punish" him for daring to attempt to refuse. If he'd known what was going to happen, he would have made a point of not being around long enough for the orderlies to be able to grab him... but it isn't as though they gave any warning - or that he could have the slightest inkling that ANY doctor or hospital would actually do such a thing! That episode was over a decade and a half ago, and he still gets pain where they cut into his chest. Thankfully not as much as there was.

So... just saying that it is NOT the hospitals fault if someone is forced to do something is (IMO) somewhat naive. Yes, hospitals and doctors should respect a patients wishes. Legally, they are required to. However, if you're in a position where it's you against a multitude of people, even without the physical manhandling my husband endured, there is still the intimidation factor. Not many people, women especially (and more especially while they're in labour) have the ability to just say "no" and walk out of the hospital... because with a lot of hospitals that is your choice. It's their way or the highway. There aren't many women out there who will leave the hospital they're already in, whilst in full labour, and go to find another one, hoping that it's "better".

As far as I'm concerned, I personally feel that any hospital that has handled a pregnancy all the way through and then refuses to continue to look after that woman at week 35 because "her" midwife has gone has some real issues anyway.

I've been to two good hospitals and one bad one for giving birth. My next time I can only hope it's a good one, because I just don't have the funds to move to the other side of the country just to give birth in one of the good ones. I am seriously considering just moving back to the west coast simply because if I *do* get pregnant again in the future, at least I know there's one good hospital that I can get real service from.

I've experienced other hospitals (both good and bad) for various other reasons, either for myself or family members. The good ones listen. The bad ones tell you what to do, and if you don't follow through there ARE repercussions. I know of one woman who lost her baby to child services because the doctors at the hospital were upset at her for not having the baby in *their* hospital, yet they were the ones to turn her away after her waters had broken, stating that she can't be giving birth because a doctor had looked at her 24 hours previously and had stated she wasn't due to give birth for a minimum of two weeks, even though she was already two weeks overdue.

Good on you if all you've experienced are the good hospitals. It's nice to know they're that plentiful... but there are too many bad ones around, and the bad ones are VERY bad, People can die in bad hospitals (because of the way the staff behaves), and most times the hospital just continues on blithely ignoring the issues, and letting problems worsen until finally someone complains and is heard by the media or someone high in authority, and a basic sweeping of dirt under the rug later, it's all 'back to normal'.

Do I hate hospitals? Actually, no. I just hate the bad ones. The problem is you don't know if a hospital is a good or a bad one until you've had to go there.

My personal suggestion? If someone lives in Perth, King Edward Memorial is a great place to deliver. It's a teaching hospital, but even the people learning are better than the fully qualified staff in some other places I've seen.

you said that much better than i could have. i have been trying to figure ou how to all day.
i know of a woman who was held down so that the ob could do what they thought was the right thing to do. this is unacceptable and unfortunately does happen, and unfortunately women in labour are easier to manipulate.
there are good hospitals out there. i got one of the better ones, although i won't be going back there unless i am sick or there is a problem ;P
sadly there are also bad ones. as you said, you don't know until you have been there. what is good for one person is anothers worst nightmare.

Just a little something to add re: the laying flat on your back to give birth. At a home birthing antenatal class I attended there was a student midwife who was attending with her friend as her support person. She was a midwife at a large hospital and was in awe of the different positions etc that the midwife teaching the class was going through - she had NEVER seen a woman give birth any other way than on her back in stirrups!!!

FRIGHTNING HEY!!!! If this is how our student midwives are being taught and being exposed to this what chance is there for future birthing mums that these midwives are supporting.

With regards to being held down - it does happen. Read throught he other birth threads, it happens every single day. Yes it is illegal but how many women stand up for their rights not many.

PS I am sorry that your hubby had to go through that ordeal.

Thanks for the compliments smile

Crunchy Mama, I hate to say it but he's actually been through worse at hospitals! Thanks for the condolences though. It has taught a basic lesson though - keep your eyes open and never trust the doctors. I harsh lesson, and some doctors don't deserve it... but a vast majority of the ones we've met seem to need the watching.

The sad part is that hospitals do these things, and get away with it. After all... for the people who want to put in complaints - who will people believe? The doctors, or the "crazy whiny person" who doesn't like hospitals anyway?

Not to mention that they actually make it difficult to put in a complaint. You have to put everything in writing, in detail, get the correct address (and hope they don't "mislay" it) and post it off. No going to the hospital to talk to someone direct. Heck, the hospital where I had my 8 month old (the bad birthing experience for me) actually managed to lose my blue baby records book when I had to go in when he was a month old! He was transferred to Westmead, and when I explained about the lack of a blue book, they told me that I should just be able to talk to the delivery suite at the hospital where I had him and have them use the old records to make up a new one. No such luck. I have YET to have the book replaced. I've been given the run-around so many times about who I have to approach (or write to) and who I need to apply to for a copy of the very book that THEY lost, it's not funny. As it is, I'm grateful that my doctor keeps records. When I finally do manage to get them to replace the book, the vaccinations etc can all be put in there. Of course, no weights etc, since those details are only ever kept in that book and... well... I haven't had that book since he was a month old.

You do make some good points girlbunny, i agree with you. It's sad that Kandied heart's question turned into such biterness of " who knows best". There are risks in everything and it's not like things don't go wrong at hospitals, they certainly do. I'm seeing a specialist for migraines and have to pay $340 for my visists and was told i shouldn't think about having kids but i should pump up on more drugs for the pain.

Now if i weren't so into my reading and research i would have accepted this advice and prayed for things to change in the near future. The doc didn't force me to take more meds but she sure as hell didn't give me any alternatives. Nevertheless im not following that advice because i know what feels right and more pills doesn't. This can be the situation in many cases for pregnant women and good for the woman who can think straight when in pain and refuse to do this or that.

I find it sad that there are so many women against different birthing options. Homebirths are safe and women whould be supported if they choose to do so. And no there isn't an either or when it comes to mom's peacefulness and baby's safety. I would like to think they both go hand in hand. Unless the baby is coming out from a stone wall. So there ladies stop putting negative thoughts into ppl's minds and start doing your homework. Being an intelligent woman means exploring all your options and making the best decision for yourself and baby. No two births or women are alike!!!!

FIRSTLY:
To all the wonderful mum's who pm-ed me. I am ok. Busy try to right this monumental F#$% UP!
I am back in the birth centre (still appalled at the medical system however!) BUT WITH BACK UP! The mid wife who left is going to be my support in the hospital. And is then going to do my post natal care afterwards.

Secondly: I am appalled at how misinformed many women are about the chain of intervention and how easy it is to wind up with procedures that are not required! With consent or otherwise!

Thridly: IAM NOT young- I am just not very aggressive whilst in labour! I asked to move around (once they'd done some quick checks to make sure all was ok) I was told there is no time now for that you are to stay right where you are! My husband is not agressive either and didn't get much further!

Fourth: I don't want a stanger delievering my baby because I and my husband view it as a VERY special event! Did any of the women

(Continued from previous post)
who commented on this invite random medical staff to there wedding? or more reasonably are your pap smears done by a regular dr?

Further more- I am an educated professional- not a misinformed hick with no concept of what she is doing!
I am EXTREMERLY low risk. I am at a VERY VERY high risk of delievering on the road side (and then the paramedics have to find me! So I hope and pray to the powers that be that I make it!)

I am disappointed that people can be soooo critical of one woman's choice. If I was to criticise all of the women advocating hospital births so harshly- could you imagine the up roar!?! Iam anti-drug: but I would not tell any woman off for her inability to birth drug free, regardless if it bad for the baby!

I am not having a go at anyone- but more so asking you to not be so harsh to others- when clearly they were asking for help not a soap box tongue lashing!!!

Kandied Heart,

I'm glad that you are okay and that things are "sorted". It's a shame that in this day and age that something so personal as how and where a women chooses to give birth can turn into what it has recently.

I hope the labour and birth goes well for you, let us know how you get on.

Christina

i'm glad to hear you are ok and got the stuff up sorted. i hope you feel a bit better about it all now.
let us know how it goes!
(i need to live out my cluckiness through others until after my op, sigh.)
good luck!

Kandied Heart.

You do NOT need to be aggressive to say NO! It is your body and your babies life. Before you go into labour, advise your OB of what is and isn't acceptable in your eyes.

And secondly - does it really matter who delivers your baby, so long as you both come through it ok? I had strangers deliver my kids (even though I met with them all throughout the pregnancy, I didn't know them really from a bar of soap), I found them all to be caring and considerate. They respected my wishes even if it went against what they suggested.

Maybe you could go private and select an OB that you feel comfortable with, that you can talk to about your concerns, who will respect your wishes when it matters most. Going public, I can't imagine you will get the kind of care you are after.

Good luck!

Posted by: Sarah_****Kandied Heart.

You do NOT need to be aggressive to say NO! It is your body and your babies life. Before you go into labour, advise your OB of what is and isn't acceptable in your eyes.

Women in labour are very vulnerable, and are actually in an altered state of consciousness when labouring, negativity or bullying is VERY distressing, and if you do not have a VERY strong advocate, MANY women are coerced into accepting things they afterwards were not happy with.

You only need to attend a birth trauma group to hear loads of extremely distressing stories of women being totally disrespected during their labours. A friend of mine has PTSD after her unnecessary c/s and I would love to see what she said to you if you were to tell her she should have been more assertive, and said "No" and not acted like a little girl, I think you would get a sharp education. I am really amazed and disappointed in your condescending attitude to be honest.

Just as some examples, here are direct quotes from Ob's mouths.

"So you don't believe in inductions, you believe in dead babies then"

"OK you have done well, but I now recommend a c/s as I can get your babies head out but if the shoulders are too big I will have to smash your pubic symphis to try to save your baby" (this woman went on to vbac, ignoring this clown with the help of her doula)

"I am going to help your baby. If you don't let me help with the suction cap you could die, your baby could die,you could lose your uterus, your baby could be born with brain damage" Woman ignored this idiot (she was pre warned thank goodness) and had the baby just fine.

"You only get a certain amount of contractions and you are running out"

"I have to manually pull apart your cervix, becasue it doesn't want to work for me"

"You can't birth in water after your waters are broken or you will get an infection which will pass to your baby and kill it"

"So you want a natural birth? Well go right ahead if you don't mind your muff looking like roadkill"

I could go on, but you get the idea. They can be absolute BULLIES and most women simply allow it, or are so scared by the 'dead baby' bull****, that they will do whatever the Ob's say.
Women are bullied in our hospitals, and it is totally apalling!! Kandied Heart, I applaud your reply post, don't let anyone belittle your experience, many other women have been through similar things, and will never set foot in a hospy again, barring true emergency.

And it is NOT good enough!! And that is why there are many women today working really hard all around Australia for birth reform, to try to stop this abuse, and ensure women can have the birth experiences they are entitled to, ones with diginty and respect. Look a little deeper into the issue.
[Edited on 12/02/2008]